Comments on: Some Questions Remain Unanswered http://www.safelawns.org/blog/index.php/2010/01/some-questions-remain-unanswered/ Organic Lawn Care Articles Tue, 27 Jul 2010 03:18:21 -0400 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8 hourly 1 By: Scott Morgan http://www.safelawns.org/blog/index.php/2010/01/some-questions-remain-unanswered/comment-page-1/#comment-5114 Scott Morgan Mon, 08 Feb 2010 22:17:47 +0000 http://www.safelawns.org/blog/?p=805#comment-5114 JB, I see nothing to dispute in your post since what you describe may very well be the cause of ADHD and other disorders. However, I find it very unlikely that there will ever be a "smoking gun" that proves conclusive in every case. The only points I was trying to make were 1. ADHD may have a genetic basis besides modifed DNA since some don't really think of ADHD as a disorder at all and that there have been possible examples of individuals with ADHD for centuries. 2. There is more than enough evidence for anyone out there that pesticies are, have been, and will continue to be bad for our health. In any case, regardless of one's view of the cause of ADHD, pesticides certainly aren't going to help, so I say just don't use them for whatever effect they may have. That's really as far as I need to take such an argument. -Scott JB,

I see nothing to dispute in your post since what you describe may very well be the cause of ADHD and other disorders. However, I find it very unlikely that there will ever be a “smoking gun” that proves conclusive in every case. The only points I was trying to make were 1. ADHD may have a genetic basis besides modifed DNA since some don’t really think of ADHD as a disorder at all and that there have been possible examples of individuals with ADHD for centuries. 2. There is more than enough evidence for anyone out there that pesticies are, have been, and will continue to be bad for our health. In any case, regardless of one’s view of the cause of ADHD, pesticides certainly aren’t going to help, so I say just don’t use them for whatever effect they may have. That’s really as far as I need to take such an argument.

-Scott

]]> By: JB Royal http://www.safelawns.org/blog/index.php/2010/01/some-questions-remain-unanswered/comment-page-1/#comment-4990 JB Royal Sat, 06 Feb 2010 02:48:56 +0000 http://www.safelawns.org/blog/?p=805#comment-4990 Scott your statement "there would appear to be a clear genetic basis for the disorder" may be partly true but pesticides may have still been the ADHD culprit. I often hear people making a distinction between blaming an ailment on genetics rather than pesticides or some other pollutant as if they were some how mutually exclusive and totally unrelated. The fact is that studies have found that pesticides in low doses and even upon a single event can indeed modify DNA. That said, all you would have needed was one common blood relative that came into contact with a DNA modifier for a particular damaged gene sequence to be inherited by a group of your relatives. Yes it would be genetic and yes it would be caused by pesticides. http://cebp.aacrjournals.org/content/7/10/929.abstract A new field of study called epigenetics portrayed some of this in a "Ghost in your Genes" on NOVA recently http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/genes/ Now think about the relative who may have had contact with some substance that modified his/her DNA and then look at this study they are doing. When and if they complete this one, I suspect the smoking gun will be on fire. http://cancercontrol.cancer.gov/grants/abstract.asp?applid=7532468 Lastly, I have a full unopened can of a pesticide "Dr. Hess Louse Killer" from the 1920's that has some NASTY ingredients including Tobacco Tars. As usual, the largest percentage of stuff is INERT. Bad stuff on farms and in the country have been around for ages. Scott your statement “there would appear to be a clear genetic basis for the disorder” may be partly true but pesticides may have still been the ADHD culprit. I often hear people making a distinction between blaming an ailment on genetics rather than pesticides or some other pollutant as if they were some how mutually exclusive and totally unrelated. The fact is that studies have found that pesticides in low doses and even upon a single event can indeed modify DNA. That said, all you would have needed was one common blood relative that came into contact with a DNA modifier for a particular damaged gene sequence to be inherited by a group of your relatives. Yes it would be genetic and yes it would be caused by pesticides.
http://cebp.aacrjournals.org/content/7/10/929.abstract

A new field of study called epigenetics portrayed some of this in a “Ghost in your Genes” on NOVA recently
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/genes/

Now think about the relative who may have had contact with some substance that modified his/her DNA and then look at this study they are doing. When and if they complete this one, I suspect the smoking gun will be on fire.
http://cancercontrol.cancer.gov/grants/abstract.asp?applid=7532468

Lastly, I have a full unopened can of a pesticide “Dr. Hess Louse Killer” from the 1920’s that has some NASTY ingredients including Tobacco Tars. As usual, the largest percentage of stuff is INERT. Bad stuff on farms and in the country have been around for ages.

]]> By: Anonymous http://www.safelawns.org/blog/index.php/2010/01/some-questions-remain-unanswered/comment-page-1/#comment-4912 Anonymous Wed, 03 Feb 2010 21:45:32 +0000 http://www.safelawns.org/blog/?p=805#comment-4912 [...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by A Chemical Reaction, thegrasscutters. thegrasscutters said: Some Questions Remain Unanswered | Safelawns Daily Post and Q&A Blog: The Midwest Organic Lawn & Garden Conference... http://bit.ly/dc6PKY [...] [...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by A Chemical Reaction, thegrasscutters. thegrasscutters said: Some Questions Remain Unanswered | Safelawns Daily Post and Q&A Blog: The Midwest Organic Lawn & Garden Conference… http://bit.ly/dc6PKY [...]

]]> By: Paul Tukey http://www.safelawns.org/blog/index.php/2010/01/some-questions-remain-unanswered/comment-page-1/#comment-4832 Paul Tukey Tue, 02 Feb 2010 00:20:05 +0000 http://www.safelawns.org/blog/?p=805#comment-4832 I never would want to suggest that lawn pesticides are the only toxins that cause these issues. And many of the older pesticides are far worse than the ones we use today. We know that for certain. Thanks for all the great feedback. I never would want to suggest that lawn pesticides are the only toxins that cause these issues. And many of the older pesticides are far worse than the ones we use today. We know that for certain. Thanks for all the great feedback.

]]> By: Scott Morgan http://www.safelawns.org/blog/index.php/2010/01/some-questions-remain-unanswered/comment-page-1/#comment-4830 Scott Morgan Mon, 01 Feb 2010 23:43:08 +0000 http://www.safelawns.org/blog/?p=805#comment-4830 Thanks Paul! I certainly wasn't arguing for the use of pesticides by saying I wasn't sure if they had a link to ADHD; whether they do or not it's nasty stuff and since moving to my current home from an apartment 3 years ago my lawn has been 100% organic and mowed only with the power of my feet and aching back! I'm curious if the pesticides may cause neurological symptoms very similar to ADHD, so while the causes could be different the symptoms could be very much the same. As for possible environmental factors that could have contributed to ADHD in my family, my brother, father, two uncles, and at least one cousin all have ADHD. My father's father did maintain a garden and I do not know what chemicals he may have used, but I was born and raised in the Adirondack Park and my parents have never treated their lawn with anything. In fact, it wasn't until moving to the western part of New York State that I knew anything about lawn care services; they just didn't seem to exist up there. Now in Rochester they are everywhere and when my neighbor has his lawn sprayed I worry greatly for my two boys (4 years & 6 months). Thanks for the reply and the information. Keep up the excellent work! Thanks Paul!

I certainly wasn’t arguing for the use of pesticides by saying I wasn’t sure if they had a link to ADHD; whether they do or not it’s nasty stuff and since moving to my current home from an apartment 3 years ago my lawn has been 100% organic and mowed only with the power of my feet and aching back! I’m curious if the pesticides may cause neurological symptoms very similar to ADHD, so while the causes could be different the symptoms could be very much the same.

As for possible environmental factors that could have contributed to ADHD in my family, my brother, father, two uncles, and at least one cousin all have ADHD. My father’s father did maintain a garden and I do not know what chemicals he may have used, but I was born and raised in the Adirondack Park and my parents have never treated their lawn with anything. In fact, it wasn’t until moving to the western part of New York State that I knew anything about lawn care services; they just didn’t seem to exist up there. Now in Rochester they are everywhere and when my neighbor has his lawn sprayed I worry greatly for my two boys (4 years & 6 months).

Thanks for the reply and the information. Keep up the excellent work!

]]> By: Paul Tukey http://www.safelawns.org/blog/index.php/2010/01/some-questions-remain-unanswered/comment-page-1/#comment-4827 Paul Tukey Mon, 01 Feb 2010 23:23:50 +0000 http://www.safelawns.org/blog/?p=805#comment-4827 Here is the first major study that most environmentalists point to: http://organizedwisdom.com/helpbar/index.html?return=http://organizedwisdom.com/Pesticides_and_ADHD&url=www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2003/03/030318072141.htm. Others have followed. The results are far from conclusive, but again it comes down to whether or not it's worth the risk. Here is the first major study that most environmentalists point to: http://organizedwisdom.com/helpbar/index.html?return=http://organizedwisdom.com/Pesticides_and_ADHD&url=www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2003/03/030318072141.htm. Others have followed. The results are far from conclusive, but again it comes down to whether or not it’s worth the risk.

]]> By: Scott Morgan http://www.safelawns.org/blog/index.php/2010/01/some-questions-remain-unanswered/comment-page-1/#comment-4825 Scott Morgan Mon, 01 Feb 2010 23:10:27 +0000 http://www.safelawns.org/blog/?p=805#comment-4825 I have seen you mention a possible link between ADHD and pesticides in the past, but I was always under the impression that ADHD was genetic. I have it myself and I'll admit up front that I haven't read anything about it in years, but for several members of my extended family there would appear to be a clear genetic basis for the disorder. Plus, there are several examples of historical figures who likely had ADHD well before the invention of synthetic fertilizers (granted who knows what nasty natural substances they could have come into contact with!). So, while I don't dispute that pesticides might play a role and perhaps in an ADHD-like disorder, do you know of any studies that directly link ADHD and pesticides that are more than anecdotal? Regardless, I think we can both agree that even if pesticides don't contribute to ADHD, the potential risk to human and animal life is much too great to keep using them as we have been. I have seen you mention a possible link between ADHD and pesticides in the past, but I was always under the impression that ADHD was genetic. I have it myself and I’ll admit up front that I haven’t read anything about it in years, but for several members of my extended family there would appear to be a clear genetic basis for the disorder. Plus, there are several examples of historical figures who likely had ADHD well before the invention of synthetic fertilizers (granted who knows what nasty natural substances they could have come into contact with!). So, while I don’t dispute that pesticides might play a role and perhaps in an ADHD-like disorder, do you know of any studies that directly link ADHD and pesticides that are more than anecdotal? Regardless, I think we can both agree that even if pesticides don’t contribute to ADHD, the potential risk to human and animal life is much too great to keep using them as we have been.

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